Scenario 1

A pub landlord complies fully with the smoking legislation. He also has a shelter outside his pub which complies fully with the 50% rule. Winter comes, and it's particularly bad, and many smokers become uncomfortable and some of them spend less time at the pub as a direct result. Also, some non smokers become uncomfortable when they're outside with their smoking friends and therefore they too spend less time there.

The landlord makes the decision to make his shelter completely enclosed in an attempt to bring back those customers. He succeeds, and they come back. The result is that the pub itself is smoke free, with a separate indoor area next to the pub.

Of course the landlord is breaking the law and I must stress that this is not a discussion on the rights or wrongs of breaking this or any law. It is purely a discussion on the practical and moral aspects of the scenario.

Posters are invited to debate this issue with me, the admin. This means that all posts must address me, the devil's advocate.

Surprisingly (I am sure for most people here) I do not object to this since the main pub itself is still smoke-free, and I would definitely not complain about such a scenario, and it's not the kind of breach of the law I would bother to report, but would personally let them get on with it (although would depend on how near the pub it was and whether smoke came into the pub).

I am not always "out to get" smokers, I only want to protect those of us who do not want to breathe it, especially if it makes us ill.

The reason I personally report smokers is if I see them breaking the law in such a way that a non-smoker might be affected.

I do not think I am unreasonable.

Lilachamster :

- Why should the main part of the pub be the part which i smoke free? Do you believe that most people have a problem with tobacco smoke?

- Do you think that the smoking area can have its own bar?

- Why would you have a problem if the smoking area was not completely separated from the non smoking area, given that surely there are many who wouldn't have a problem with this?

- Do you believe that breaches of laws should be reported by those who personally object, or do you believe that all breaches of laws should be reported?

- Supposing it is the case that a majority of non smokers have no problem with tobacco smoke, do you still have the right to protect them if they specifically do not wish to be protected?

What say you, Lilachamster?

- Why should the main part of the pub be the part which i smoke free? Do you believe that most people have a problem with tobacco smoke?

Yes, I believe that most people do have a problem with smoke, and the pub should be smoke-free to protect the health of non-smokers.

- Do you think that the smoking area can have its own bar?

No, because the law is there mainly to protect the bar staff, so the smokers should go to the smoke-free bar without a cigarette to get their drinks.

- Why would you have a problem if the smoking area was not completely separated from the non smoking area, given that surely there are many who wouldn't have a problem with this?

Yes, I would not be happy with this because passive smoking in any amount is harmful, and if drifts. It's especially harmful to some of us more than others, if you are severely allergic to it, eg most asthmatics. Some people have a severe nut allergy, this is why many schools are nut-free, so same issue applies to smoke although not the same kind of allergy, it's still deadly to an asthmatic.

- Do you believe that breaches of laws should be reported by those who personally object, or do you believe that all breaches of laws should be reported?

I would ideally report them all, although would take more trouble if I saw someone was suffering due to a breach of the law (or if I was suffering)

- Supposing it is the case that a majority of non smokers have no problem with tobacco smoke, do you still have the right to protect them if they specifically do not wish to be protected?

I have the right to do that, yes. I am certainly not harming them by it. They can object if they wish, but I still have the right to report someone breaking the law.

Lilachamster :

You say that you believe most people have a problem with tobacco smoke. I take it that you are giving this as your reason for believing that the main part of a pub should be free of smoke.

- Why do you hold the belief that most people have a problem with tobacco smoke?

- Would you be ok with a pub having an indoor smoking area, completely separated from an indoor non smoking area, and a bar which is in its own separate area?

- Would you be ok with a pub which has a much larger smoking area than non smoking area, if it is separate?

- Would you be ok with an indoor smoking area with a self service bar?

- If you saw 2 laws being broken, one of them involving something that you don't personally object to but there is a victim, and another one involving something that you do object to but which involves no victim, what would you do?

- Supposing it is the case that a majority of non smokers have no problem with tobacco smoke, do you still have the right to protect them if they specifically do not wish to be protected? (I'm sorry but your reply doesn't address this question)